@changed my name: I should use that next time I go for an interview. I had a 3.9 GPA but that doesn't matter! I had perfect attendance!!!

@pecan 3.14159265: Another big problem. The only people I knew who waited until the last minute or after graduation (up to a few months, even) to find a job were the wealthy kids. If you're not wealthy and you're not hunting for a job (or applying to grad school) by November at the latest (or at least sometime during the first semester of your Senior year) then you are unequivocally STUPID. Yes, stupid. No exceptions

@pecan 3.14159265: I couldn't agree more. I skipped college (well after the 1st semester of partying) and now have a more stable and lucrative job than any of my friends that stuck around for bachelors and even a doctorate. Experience, personality, and work ethic are what's important, not whether you wasted 4~12 years of your life for a piece of paper.

@Coyote: It's funny you agree with me, because I'm a firm proponent for college education, if one has proven to show the mettle for it. This stems from my experience with people who worked half as hard as I did, and thought they could scrape by and get a job afterward. I wanted to tell those people to quit now, grow up, rethink their life path, and then return to college if they felt it was something necessary. College is a great idea - but having the wisdom to use it and do well is even better.

@outoftheblew: Chances are the judge will offer her a job position. Poor decision skills, flagrant disregard for status-quo, false sense of entitlement, sue HAPPY. She sounds like she would fit right in with our legal system.

@outoftheblew: They cannot request a resume that doesn't exist. The college also needs to get that made for her because that is clearly their job.

@dohtem: The RIAA perhaps?

@dohtem: I hear Roy Pearson is available, if someone will hire him.

@dohtem:
Monster Cable

@kepler11: This is exactly what I noticed about some of the schools I have gone to. A majority of people who go to technical colleges (which I think this person did, based on the information on the site and the type of degree she has) think that the school will do everything for them and they just need to pay the money. This isn't the case. Ever since I left my technical school, I have seen my former classmates take on jobs that were not the type promised by admissions reps, and they thought the school degree would help them obtain a job that they wanted. However, it isn't what you do at the school that makes you get the jobs you want, it is what you do OUTSIDE of the class/school that helps build your experience and you have to utilize what you learn in the class to work on the project outside of the class. The few exceptional students who did this are now living the happy life in a job that they wanted to do.

@Techguy1138: Colleges aren't supposed to teach you to get a job, or how to get a job. That's part of the instruction, but not the goal. Colleges are supposed to supply a well-rounded education, and it's up to the learner to make use of the skills he/she learns and apply them. It's not Monroe College's fault that she couldn't find a job. She didn't work during college, even though she needed money, she didn't work while she took a semester off, and she apparently isn't working now (she lists her monthly income as $100, which according to a letter submitted along with the filing, is given to her by her mother). Most people juggle looking for a full-time position in their chosen field with actually working a full-time job at a restaurant, or in a store. It's no one's fault but her own that she's too dim to understand that college isn't a golden ticket.

She's not taking some kind of moral high road here - she just wants money. It's not about proving that college costs too much, it's about her wanting to get money because she's not willing to earn it honestly, like most other people do.

@Techguy1138: Well, it depends on the degree you get while at college. Stick it out and get a degree in Finance, Accounting, Statistics, Engineering... degrees that lead directly into a field, even better a certification, and its worth it. The old trick I have always said is "get a degree that's named exactly for the job."

But if you go and get a degree in some soft field, you're mostly stuck. A Philosophy degree might be great, but what are you going to do with it? Get your PhD and teach?

@Techguy1138: I wrote a longer comment on this before noticing yours - and then the comment got eaten. I agree - I think colleges try to advertise that degree = better job. I don't think that's true. (But I still think this is quite ridiculous).

@Techguy1138: Not only is it frivolous, but it's no wonder she couldn't she couldn't find a job. Spelled tuition wrong? Jeez, I bet her resume is hee-larrrrious. "Intellekshool studint with strong back round in manijmint and bisniss administrayshun. Teem playir willing too wurk hard to get the job dun."

@Tux the Penguin: No matter what your degree, there's always sales. Or law school. Graduate school in the social sciences, science, etc-government or military job. Go to a top school or do really really well? Have a good career counseling office? Make some connections at job fairs. Accounting degrees really help narrow the job search, but it's not like non-business/engineering/pre-med students are fucked. They just need to look harder.

@EinhornIsAMan!: I think the problem is that this girl thinks she's entitled to an easy road, and when reality slapped her in the face, she decided to get a payout rather than accept reality and work harder. She didn't pick a bad degree, but it's clear from her horrible spelling and seemingly poor work ethic (she needed money, but didn't work during school, or after leaving school with an associates degree) that she didn't actually learn anything.

Monroe College is either graduating students who lack basic spelling skills (and work ethic) or it seems to be okay with letting students show up and do nothing else.

@Tux the Penguin: Hey man, nothing wrong with wanting to teach.

But I agree that there are degrees where you really need to be able to sell yourself and how your degree relates to the job you're applying for. It's possible but you have to be creative.

@Techguy1138:

So people know, Monroe College isn't exactly a place with leafy quadrangles and students debating the merits of Sartre. It's a very career/employment focused place that advertises heavily on the subway. It's a vocational school. That's not to say that this woman has a claim, though.

@Tux the Penguin:
"Stick it out and get a degree in Finance, Accounting, Statistics, Engineering... degrees that lead directly into a field, even better a certification, and its worth it."

Then why do colleges charge the same for soft degrees that aren't worth the cost? My comment is off topic but it comes down to colleges over charge for education and possibly set their standards to low for a general degree to be of any value. A liberal arts degree should be just as difficult as an engineering degree at the same college to give it value. That is often not the case.

University's offer soft degrees of little value and sell them as high value items. I hope her case brings this to the forefront of peoples minds. 70k of education for a 45k a year job is a really bad deal.

@Techguy1138: Sorry, there's no contractual obligation.

Further, university isn't supposed to be a vocational school.

Finally, nobody forced her to go to college and pay tuition. She willingly entered into this transaction. There's no guarantee for anyone that a job will be waiting upon graduation.

@EinhornIsAMan!: She's not getting into a good law school with that GPA.

@FinanceGuru: But we're really not talking about "her" specifically in this thread, just college majors/programs in general

@Techguy1138: You're seeing it in terms of money. I know that philosophy degrees probably won't bring in the same kind of money that engineering degrees do, but if I suck at engineering and I love philosophy, it's really my prerogative to spend that money and do what I'm good at. Next, you'll say English degrees are useless because hey, who needs literature nowadays? I knew a great deal of science and engineering students who were very bright in their particular concentration, but struggled with English and writing courses precisely because it wasn't something they focused on extensively. It's about what you're good at, and it's not objective. It's not English - bad, Engineering - awesome.

@EinhornIsAMan!: It still applies. When you go to college, you accept that the reality you craft for yourself may not be the case. A lot of students go to college thinking it'll be so easy, they'll do so much partying, it'll be the best time of their lives - and then they realize that they have 40 pages of reading to do in one night, three papers due in one month, and an essay test for a class they haven't paid attention in. Guess what? Life throws curveballs. It's not anyone else's fault you didn't see the pitcher before getting on the mound. And just because you want things to be easier, and more fun, doesn't mean that they'll be that way. College professors (the ones who really love their work) are not in the business of coddling. They're there to teach and educate and instill wisdom.

@Techguy1138: Just because one degree program has a lower starting salary than another degree program, it doesn't necessarily make the costs to teach, manage, administer, etc. that degree program any less.

And I may be biased as an engineer, but I don't see a way to physically make a liberal arts degree program as difficult as an engineering curriculum. English will never change, but engineers have to be well rounded and prepared for an ever-changing career field. I'd say the content is inherently more difficult to understand, too.

In short, I don't think that the salary statistics should ever be taken into account for the cost of a degree program. Any given degree is as useful as you make it, taking into account your unique skills and knowledge. If you make yourself stand out by being better than others, then you'll find a job (eventually -- to give up after 3 months is lazy and pathetic) with any degree.

If anything, this case just shows you what I've noticed for awhile -- college kids have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. Now that so many people have them, a four year degree isn't a guaranteed ticket to anything these days. Just like any purchase, one has to weigh the benefits before undertaking a degree, and unfortunately, most kids out of high school don't have that kind of foresight.

@pecan 3.14159265: I don't know what the finger-wagging is about, because I'm not disagreeing with you. The post where I said we were speaking in generalities was a response to someone responding to my first post, which itself was making a very similar point as your response to Techguy1138. I agree with you, and your post stands well on its own, I'm just not sure why you addressed it to me.

@pecan 3.14159265: All I'm saying is that I originally thought Tux the Penguin missed the point on two counts: 1) that there are good majors that don't prepare you for a specific job and options besides Business and Engineering and 2) the real problem with this woman who's suing is her lack of initiative and apparent laziness in being a supposed college graduate and still misspelling words on official documents. I really only addressed the former point because I felt that was the more important one, not the one specific to this situation. But it doesn't matter anyway

@pecan 3.14159265: Exactly. Colleges are supposed to give you an education - getting a job after you graduate is your responsibility.

Her sense of entitlement is astounding, considering the economy/jobless rate at the moment.

@supercereal: "If anything, this case just shows you what I've noticed for awhile -- college kids have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. Now that so many people have them, a four year degree isn't a guaranteed ticket to anything these days. Just like any purchase, one has to weigh the benefits before undertaking a degree, and unfortunately, most kids out of high school don't have that kind of foresight."

That's just it though. So many people have degrees now it's not the same as it used to be. I think undergrad tuition should be lowered in general... I mean, universities are in a business gray area right now. The people don't realize that it's not worth what it used to be worth to have a college degree. The colleges are taking advantage of this.... instead of lowering prices like they should..... they keep going up!!! Despite what anyone says, I believe college has become more of a business institution than an education institution.

I think the whole system needs some regulation and revamping.

@supercereal: You may be a good engineer but from what I have seen literature and liberal arts studies change more than engineering.
Building codes don't radially change, nor do construction techniques or physics. Some fields change faster than others but that holds pretty steady.

A liberal arts degree could be held to a very high standard. I think it's much easier to understand why a circuit works or doesn't compared to why a book 'works' or doesn't.

The colleges have really bamboozled the government and to some part the loan industry. The college gets it's tuition upfront and forces the loan companies and government to pay up when the degrees the graduate has are financially unenviable. The cost for college in the last 15 years has absolutly skyrocketed not due to an increase in costs but to an increase in available credit.

@pecan 3.14159265:

You really shouldn't put words in my mouth. I am not attacking the fields of study, nor the quest for intellectual satisfaction. University's are overcharging for degrees.

Is saddling what could have been a productive and inquisitive member of society with a nearly unimaginable amount of debt before they are 22 doing the student or country a service.

@ryohazuki222: You're hinting at some important things here. There is no education/ training/ workforce policy in the U.S. There's just a crazyquilt of schools, colleges and universities, all making promises they cannot keep, not well synced to the needs of industry. Even if you're smart and do your research, you cannot find out exactly what your fortunes will be upon graduation from college with any given degree. Admissions counselors know they have to lie, professors don't have a clue what's going on in the work world, and if asked, many employees in a given field will be overly optimistic because people don't like to admit they're losers themselves.

@Techguy1138: Based on the fact that my college math books published new editions every 2 semesters, I'd guess that the Pythagorean theorem is highly dynamic.

@Techguy1138: College teaches you 1)how to finish something; 2)how to organize your time and prioritize and 3)how to find your own information, rather that asking people for it. Those are all valuable skills that I use every day on the job. I might be only a receptionist right now, but I'm grateful I went. Otherwise I might not have had the discipline to write a book while working full-time.

Drinking, partying and sex skills are optional. :)

@tbax929: A friend of mine is hiring for a few new grad positions and she is constantly telling me about people with degrees from very good universities that have high GPAs with horrible resumes and cover letters. A lot of them have spelling errors that Word would have picked up without a problem. The worst part is when some people write replies to emails sent to them by the employer in IM speak or without using proper capitalization. What makes people think that's ok?!

@sprocket79:
It's so bad that my company actually hired me to teach basic grammar classes. I was amazed at how bad some of my colleagues' grammar is. I think at the very least, if you know you have issues with spelling and grammar you should ask someone for help. You can't file a formal complaint about not being able to find a job after college if your complaint is rife with grammatical errors.

@tbax929: From conversations with one of the HR guys in my office, I'm surprised at how much leeway they get. A couple really DO toss out anything with a single grammatical or spelling error. He seems to have been telling me that it's usually a function of applicant pool and the job. If we're hiring a guy to basically make copies and whatnot, spelling is easier to forgive than for a lawyer-type. By the same token, if you have a very small applicant pool (pretend we're in a different economy for a second), then it's usually not worth it to toss out someone and hire another person who is much less qualified just because the other one had a minor spelling error

@JamieSueAustin: There are a lot of colleges like that, I agree. They make it seem so easy, but it's a shame that people don't use common sense.

I was looking at the Monroe College website, and never once get the idea that this school inferred that college = good job. And nowhere in the career center section did it ever say that they guarantee jobs, or that they find jobs for you - it says, "The Office of Career Advancement helps with career assessment, resume writing, job search and strategy, employer recruitment and placement, interviewing skills, and other job search guidance."

To me, this girl unrealistically expected the college to find her a job, when it was her responsibility all along.

@JamieSueAustin: The problem is half-truths are more dangerous than flat out lies. Someone really does need to make the 20 year old kid working at McDonald's and barely scraping by that chances are, by pure numbers, his band probably won't take off, or he probably won't become that rich A-list celebrity in ten years, and that he should probably drag his ass to the local CC, get his GED, and get certified to work in a field where you can actually make a solid living-like working as an undertaker (solid job) or surgical technician, or other things that don't require a whole lot of education or training but can make decent money.
These kids just need to realize that there's no magic bullet. Don't go to that private, no-name school advertised on TV because it had a good commercial. Find your nearest community college, and don't just take classes and get an associate's degree, get CERTIFIED for something. Whether it's a surgical tech or WHATEVER, SOMETHING that will give you a specific skill set and qualify you for a job.

@JamieSueAustin: Yeah the problem with these advertisements is that they seem to be trying to sell the idea that you can go to school for a couple of weeks and start making big bucks. No, not at all. But it's not hopeless, of course, they just need to snap to reality and realize that there are a ton of part time community college options/trade schools. They will require work, for a couple of years at least, but they will leave you certified for something. It's not enough to tell kids to "get a degree."

And stop going to the shit private schools advertised on the radio! Just go to your local CC! Chances are it's 100 times better and cheaper!

@JamieSueAustin: Well, beer commercials tell me that I'll have hot babes hanging off me the minute I pop the cap off a bottle. It hasn't happened yet. :)

@JamieSueAustin: I went to the link Consumerist had for the school to see if it looks like that type of school but the site doesn't look like it's for a college.

I think maybe the right site for the college is here: [www.monroecollege.edu]

But it doesn't seem like it's one of those "we promise to get you employed" schools.

@HogwartsAlum: I agree with you 100%. I only hope she gets stuck with a fiduciary penalty for wasting the time of the court, and the institution that gave her a degree.

@HogwartsAlum: To be fair, though, your degrees in Divination and Herbology really aren't in demand at the moment. But I do agree with you...she's in it for the money. Fortunately, she's now tainted her name and I'd be surprised if she was hired anywhere now.

@Liam Kinkaid: Should've gone with Defense of the Dark Arts. That's where all the money's at right now.

@pecan 3.14159265: Nah but after Voldemort's defeat the job market for Aurors plummeted. I mean, how many do you really need after the Dark Lord has been defeated? That and all the little Harry Potter wannabes flooding the applicant pools. No, no, stick with Potions. With wizards and witches living longer than ever, all the big elixir companies are hiring left and right.

@EinhornIsAMan!: Potions is so tricky though. All that mixing, and you have to have a kind of finesse. I think Defense of the Dark Arts is still extremely viable from an academic point of view, especially since it's required at Hogwarts anyway.

@Liam Kinkaid: At least it wasn't Muggle Studies.

@pecan 3.14159265: But there are only so many teaching positions available at schools of magic! If Potions is not your strength, I'd suggest a position in the Ministry of Magic; you'll never be rich but the benefits are top notch.

@Rectilinear Propagation: Don't tell that to Mr. Weasley.

@HogwartsAlum: i'm not alone! not sure if that makes me happy or sad.

on a side note if there's anyone in NH who provides supervision to mental health counselors so they can be licensed....you know where this is going

@Liam Kinkaid:

:D

I knew I should have majored in Ancient Runes...at least I could be working as a translator.

@Crabby Cakes: I'm glad I wasn't the only one who actually got mad reading this.

There's someone over at the forums for customerssuck.com with the user name vacation_rentals_suck. This woman reminds me of the customer he always ends up writing about. VRS has had several people tell him that he has ruined their vacation because he couldn't tell them whether or not a specific restaurant was good.

@Crabby Cakes Yeah, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to get mad, either. She makes real college graduates who worked their asses off look bad. I worked really hard for my degree, and I worked really hard to get ahead. And now I have this bozo who didn't understand what she was doing looking for a payout.

@dantsea: The law works by reasonable expectations.

Does it seem reasonable to expect to have a better time in the job market after completing a 4-year degree program? I'd say yes. I'm certainly better off for having a 4 year degree.

Does it seem reasonable to expect hot babes after downing a coors? Probably not.

I do think, while this chick is a dingbat, this raises some pretty good questions.

Why are Schools allowed to advertise "Exciting better paying jobs" on the radio and TV?

The government is now looking into all the Mortgage companies that are claiming bullshit mortgage rates to refi your house.

@balls187: Exactly !

Let's face it with the abundance of advertising and access to money from loans etc I doubt very much these schools would be as big or profitable with students paying out of pocket . I've also read of several conflict of interest cases where schools have been caugth directing students to certain loan companies .

But you also have the debate of exactly how valuable or usefull is college now a days . It can't be that usefull if this graduate didn't learn anything from a macro economics course or even learned how to spell or the importance of checking your work/spelling .

Yeah this grad is niave but these schools aren't exactly out of the business of business either .

@meganjanae: I hear ya, honey...I have two degrees, in English and criminology, and made the Dean's List twice without even trying.

NO ONE CARES!

Oh well. Keep trying. It took a while but I found something, at least for now. I wish you luck! :)

@Frank From Virginia: I thought the $75k was for the default judgement--what she would get if the defendant didn't bother to answer the lawsuit. I saw that and assumed that the default judgement requested didn't have to equal the amount of the suit. Maybe someone who actually knows something about law can comment.

@HammerMan: Pfft.

Even assuming that she was made oral promises by the recruiter for job assistance, that's probably not binding on the university.

This is a meritless suit.

@HammerMan:
Most schools offer a promise of a better life after you've graduated; that's why most of us went to college in the first place. However, an intelligent, educated person knows the economy is in the shitter, and good jobs are hard to come by.

I was fortunate because I started my career before I got my degree. Since I already had the job I wanted, I didn't have to find another one after I graduated a few years ago. I'm really glad I did it the way I did, but I feel badly for people who are just starting their careers in this market. I can empathize with them, but I certainly don't think this should be a lawsuit.

@HammerMan:

1) what exactly did the ollege recruiter promise to her for her to sign the admission papers?

Regardless of what was promised, one can't realistically expect a job to magically drop in their lap with absolutely no effort. If you're demanding money because the real world is too hard, you have boatloads of issues and you're probably better off living in your parent's basement anyway.

2) Exactly how much "help" did her college's 'Office for Carreer Development' provide her on finding a job?

A college isn't obligated to find you a job. You pay to take classes; anything else is nice, but not required on the schools part.

3) To how many companies she applied to on her own during the three months after her graduation?

I don't see how you can use this as a claim for a legit lawsuit. She's too lazy to find a job, so she should sue someone else? Whether she applied to 1 or 1 million companies, the school has no responsibility or expectation to make any company offer her a job.

@HammerMan: I sure hope that was sarcasm... thanks for the laugh anyway!

@strandist:
Personal responsibility??? Who in the world teaches that anymore?

@tbax929: The School of Hard Knocks?